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Min CC 03/12/1985 C I T Y O F C I B 0 L 0 MINUTES OF WORK SHOP MARCH 12 , 1985 1. CALL TO ORDER. 7 : 00 P.M. - MAYOR BILL LITTLE 2 . ROLL CALL. PRESENT: BILL WIEDERSTEIN DANNIE BISHOP FRED NIEMIETZ MIKE ABSHER JOSIE NIRIDER CITY ADMINISTRATOR: DAVID F. HARP VISITORS PRESENT: GREEN VALLEY WATER SUPPLY CORPORATION BOARD MEMBERS: HAROLD D. TSCHIRHART, PRESIDENT JAMES E._ ARNST, SECRETARY-TREAS. BEN F. HARDEY, BOARD MEMBER EDDIE A. WAGNER, BOARD MEMBER DAVID J. DAVENPORT, OPERS. MANAGER DOROTHY A. MILLS, ADMIN. ASSISTANT _ 3 . CITIZENS TO BE HEARD. (Limit 3 Minutes ) NO CITIZENS REQUESTED TO BE HEARD. 4 . CONSIDER AND DISCUSS WITH BOARD MEMBERS OF THE GREEN VALLEY WATER SUPPLY CORPORATION MUTUAL PROBLEMS REGARDING WATER SERVICE TO THE CITY OF CIBOLO. MAYOR LITTLE: I THINK WE ALL KNOW THAT THIS IS AN INFORMAL WORK SHOP AND WE ARE HERE TO TRY- =T0 WORK.-OUT- SOME- TYPE--OF- AGREEMENT ORK._OUT_ SOME_ TYPE__OF_AGREEMENT WITH GREEN VALLEY AS TO WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST FOR THE CITY OF CIBOLO AND ALSO GREEN VALLEY WATER, ON WHO IS GOING TO SERVE WHAT AND WHAT TYPE OF AGREEMENT WOULD YOU GET. I THINK DAVID, YOU HAVE ASKED US SEVERAL TIMES WHAT OUR INTENTIONS ARE, AND WE CAN THROW THAT ABOUT A LITTLE BIT. I MIGHT ASK YOU, JUST TO KICK IT OFF HERE, WHAT WOULD GREEN VALLEY LIKE? DAVID DAVENPORT: WELL, LET ME MENTION FIRST THAT WE FILED IN ' 76 WITH THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION AND WAS GIVEN�_A CERTIFICATE OF CONVENIENCE OF NECESSITY FOR A SPECIFIC AREA. THE HISTORY BEHIND THAT, AND MOST PEOPLE EITHER DON' T REMEMBER OR WERE NOT HERE TO KNOW WHY THE MAPS WERE FILED LIKE THEY WERE, BUT IT DOES COVER THE ENTIRE CITY OF CIBOLO. I DON' T BELIEVE THAT GREEN VALLEY REALLY _INTENDS TO HAVE THE CERTIFICATE OF CONVENIENCE AND NECESSITY OVER THE WATER SYSTEM THAT EXISTS HERE IN CIBOLO. CIBOLO DID NOT FILE, AND IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE TODAY. THE MAP THAT WAS FILED AT THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION ENCOMPASSES LARGE AREAS WE ARE CURRENTLY SERVICING, AND WE OVERLAP WHERE WE ARE SERVING. MR. DAVENPORT SAID THEIR MAIN CONCERN WAS NOT TO CREAT TWO COM- PETING__UTILITIES, BUT MAYBE DECIDE UPON A LINE BETWEEN US, SO THAT EACH WOULD SERVE A SPECIFIC AREA. MR. DAVENPORT FURTHER STATED THAT HE COULD NOT COME BEFORE THEM TONIGHT AND SAY JUST WHAT THAT LINE SHOULD BE. MAYOR LITTLE AGREED WITH HIM AND AD-V.rSY D THOSE PRESENT THAT THE CITY AND GREEN VALLEY WATER WERE TO MEET BEFORE THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION ON APRIL 18TH, SO TIME WAS VERY IMPORTANT AT THIS POINT. MR. DAVENPORT STATED THAT WHEN CIBOLO ORIGINALLY FILED, GREEN VALLEY WATER WORKED WITH THE CITY ADMINISTRATOR AT THAT TIME, MR. TOMMY .BROOKS, TO DEVELOP A WATER SALES CONTRACT, AND THAT PAGE 2 MINUTES OF WORK SHOP MARCH 12 , 1985 WATER SALES CONTRACT WAS REALLY A TWO-PART DOCUMENT, AND THE OTHER PART OF THAT CONTRACT RESOLVED THIS QUESTION OF BOUNDARIES. TOMMY WAS INDICATING TO US AT THAT TIME THAT THE _CITY DIDN'_T_ WANT TO BE HEMMED IN, THAT THE CITY WANTED THE ABILITY TO GROW, AND POSSIBLY DISPLACE GREEN VALLEY. WE WORKED ON THAT CONTRACT AND SPENT CONSIDERABLE TIME AND EFFORT _AND_ DEVELOPED_ A.- MAP_=WE THOUGHT WAS EQUITABLE FOR THE CITY, AND FOR -US ALSO, TO LET THE CITY GROW AND WE DEVELOPED A MAP AT THAT TIME THAT WENT WITH THAT CONTRACT. WITH THAT ORIGINAL MAP, WE CAME HERE TO THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING AND PRESENTED IT AND DISCUSSED IT AT THE TIME ALONG WITH THE CONTRACT. MR. DAVENPORT STATED THAT HE HAD THE MAP WITH HIM AND SAID THEY COULD TAKE A LOOK AT IT, AND IT WOULD KIND OF REPRESENT WHAT GREEN VALLEY HAD AT THAT TIME, DIVIDED OUT AS A SPECIFIC AREA, AND WE AGREED THAT WE WOULD START OUT WITH AS A._BASIS FOR CERTIFICATE OF CONVENIENCE AND NECESSITY FOR THE CITY. MR. DAVENPORT STATED THAT HE DID NOT WANT TO GET TOO FAR AHEAD OF THE BOARD AND SAY THAT THEY ARE AGREEING TO THAT AREA, BECAUSE THAT CONTRACT NEVER CAME BEFORE THEM, BUT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE HAD IN NEGOTIATION AT THE TIME, AND WAS BUILT INTO THE CONTRACT. MR. DAVENPORT SAID THAT HE WOULD SAY THAT THAT WAS BASICALLY A FORM FOR A SPECIFIC- AREA THAT THEY WOULD NOT CONTEST. MR. DAVENPORT POINTED OUT THAT IT WAS EXHIBIT _"A" OF__A. SERVICE AREA THAT__WAS.-ALONG=WITH THAT CONTRACT THAT WE HAD. THE THING THAT WE DID AT THE TIME, WAS BLOCK OFF A SPECIFIC AREA, THAT WOULD BE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED YOUR CERTIFICATE OF CONVENI- ENCE AND NECESSITY AND WE' D TAKE IT. AND THEN, THE CONTRACT AS A TOOL LATER ON, IF YOU WANTED TO GROW OUTSIDE THAT BOUND- ARY AND DISPLACE US, BUY PORTIONS OF THE SYSTEM AND GO ON OUT: A PRETTY MUCH COME AS YOU GO SITUATION. MAYOR LITTLE COMMENTED THAT HE THOUHT THIS WAS THE SAME MAP GREEN VALLEY PRESENTED TO THE COUNCIL IN NOVEMBER, 1984 . MR. DAVENPORT STATED THAT IT WAS THE SAME MAP, AN ATTACHMENT TO THE CONTRACT. THE MAP THAT WAS FILED AT THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION, THOSE LINES ARE NOT MARKED ON THAT MAP. HE SAID HE COULD NAME SPECIFIC ROADS; TULLY ROAD, COUNTRY LANE, SASSMAN LANE, HACKERVILLE ROAD; THESE WERE ALL INCLUDED INSIDE THE MA-P-FILED BY THE CITY WITH THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION. THESE ARE ALL AREAS THAT GREEN VALLEY IS CURRENTLY SERVING. WE CURRENTLY HAVE THE CUSTOMERS THERE, AND WE DO NOT FEEL LIKE THAT IT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF EITHER OF US FOR BOTH OF US TO BE OUT THERE SERVICING CUSTOMERS. MAYOR LITTLE SAID__THAT HE .WOULD LIKE TO STATE FOR THE RECORD THAT THIS WAS NOT THE FIRST TIME THE CITY OF CIBOLO HAD FILED FOR A CERTIFICATE, THEY DID FILE BEFORE BUT JUST DID NOT FOLLOW THROUGH WITH SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS AND IT DID NOT GET PASSED. MAYOR LITTLE STATED THAT THE CITY FILED THIS LAST TIME BECUASE THEY- WERE UNAWARE THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE A CERTIFICATE, BUT FELT ONE WAS NEEDED. SO THE CITY FILED A MAP FOR THE ENTIRE CITY LIMITS AND ETJ. MAYOR LITTLE SAID THAT WAS WHAT HAD BEEN FILED WITH THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION. MR. TSCHIRHART COMMENTED THAT GREEN VALLEY HAD BEEN WORKING WITH THE CITY OF CIBOLO FOR QUITE A_ FEW YEARS, TRYING TO DEVELOP A MUTUALLY ADVANTAGEOUS WATER SUPPLY. WE HAVE A VERY GOOD FEEL FOR WHAT THE PROBLEMS OF THE CITY ARE, WE THINK. WHEN GREEN VALLEY STARTED BACK IN ' 63 , CIBOLO WAS NOT • INCORPORATED AND WE HAVE WATCHED THE CITY GROW. MR. TSCHIRHART SAID THE PROBLEM BECOMES ONE OF SURVIVAL FOR GREEN VALLEY, BECAUSE THEY DID COME IN TO THE CITY IN 1963 WITH THE IDEA OF SERVING ANYONE WHO DID NOT HAVE WATER, GREEN VALLEY HAD TO EXPEND CERTAIN MONIES TO DEVELOP THE AREA. MR. TSCHIRHART SAID THAT THEIR FEELINGS IN THE BEGINNING WAS, THAT PAGE 3 MINUTES OF WORK SHOP MARCH 12, 1985 AS THE AREA DEVELOPED, THEY COULD ABSORB GREEN VALLEY AND IT WOULD JUST FADE AWAY; THAT ALL OF THIS AREA SOMEDAY, INSTEAD OF BEING RURAL WOULD BE SUBURBAN- OR URBAN: AND SO THIS WAS THEIR PHILOSOPHY. IT TURNED OUT NOW, SOME TWENTY YEARS LATER, GREEN VALLEY FINDS IT CAN' T DO THAT BECAUSE OF SHEER ECONOMICS. MR. TSCHIRHART FURTHER SAID THAT DUE TO THE ECONOMIC SITUATION GREEN VALLEY IS UNABLE TO EXIST WITHOUT MAINTAING THE SYSTEM THAT IT HAS GROWN INTO AND DEVELOPED. IT IS JUST IMPOSSIBLE TO JUST BACK OFF AND GIVE IT AWAY AND STILL SURVIVE IN THE LESS DENSE AREAS. THE PRIMARY PURPOSE FOR THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE HIGH DENSITY AREAS BEING NEEDED TO SUPPORT THE LESS DENSE AREAS. _ MR. TSCHIRHART SAID THAT IF WE ARE GOING TO CO-EXIST, WHICH WE FEEL MAY BE AN IDEAL SITUATION FROM OUR STAND POINT, WE WOULD ALLOW YOU TO GROW INTO THE AREA AND WE WOULD CONTINUE TO SERVE WATER WHEREEVER WE HAVE BEEN SERVING IT IN THE PAST. GREEN VALLEY IS NOT LOOKING FOR NEW TERRITORY, AS INDEED THE CITY IS, THE CITY WILL BE ANNEXING AREAS, AS INDEED IT MUST. GREEN VALLEY FEELS AT THIS POINT, THAT THERE HOPEFULLY IS A WAY THAT WE CAN CO-EXIST BY YOU ANNEXING THE AREA AND GROWING INTO IT, AND WE CAN SERVE THE WATER JUST AS GVEC SERVES THE ELECTRICITY, REALIZING THAT, IDEALLY, THE CITY DOES WANT ITS OWN WATER SYSTEM. MR. TSCHIRHART SAID THAT AFTER THESE MANY YEARS OF STUDY, WE CAME TO WHAT WAS THOUGHT TO BE A METHOD, A VEHICLE, A CONTRACT THAT WOULD ALLOW THE CITY TO DO JUST WHAT IT NEEDS TO DO, AND THAT IS TO GROW, ANNEX, AND- MOVE--OUT INTO AN AREA FOR WHICH WE ARE CERTIFIED, WITH THE IDEA OF YOU STILL MAINTAINING OR RE- TAINING A CERTAIN CONTROL OVER YOUR CITY WATER, AND GREEN VALLEY FURNISHING THE CITY WITH WHOLESALE WATER, SO THAT GREEN VALLEY WOULD STILL HAVE AN INCOME TO SURVIVE WITH. AT THE SAME TIME, AS THE CITY MOVES INTO THESE AREAS, ALLOW GREEN VALLEY TO GIVE UP CERTAIN C.U.P_._ CERTIFIED AREAS, AND ALLOW YOU TO DEVELOP THEM WITHIN THE CITY. WE NOW HAVE THE PROBLEM OF WORKING OUT THE DETAILS OF DOING JUST THAT; AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT THE CITY WILL SEE US TRYING TO DO NOW FOR THE NEXT PERIOD OF TIME; IS TO TRY TO WORK OUT SOME PRACTICAL, VIABLE MEANS OR METHODS OF CO-EXISTANCE, REMAINING IN THERE TO SOME DEGREE, SERVING WATER, OR THEORETICALLY, TO SELL IT TO YOU AT SOME PRICE, WHICH IS A DIFFICULT FORMULA TO PUT TO- GETHER, TO ALLOW THE WATER CORPORATION TO CONTINUE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF VIABLE INCOME SO THAT IT CAN SURVIVE IN THE REST OF THE AREA. IT TURNS OUT THAT THIS IS THE MOST IN- EXPENSIVE AREA FOR US TO SERVE WATER, BECAUSE OF THE PROXIMITY OF OUR WELLS. MAYOR LITTLE STATED THAT THE CITY WAS IN THE SAME SITUATION, ECONOMICALLY, AS GREEN VALLEY, IN THAT IF THE CITY GOES OUT AND ANNEXES AN_.AREA AND GIVES THOSE CITIZENS SERVICES, IT IS NOT COST EFFECTIVE FOR US TO__GO. OUT AND GIVE THOSE PEOPLE THAT SERVICE IF WE CANNOT SERVE THEM AND SHOW A GAIN; OTHER- WISE, IF YOU GO IN THE HOLE YOU WONT LAST TOO LONG. THE CITY IS REQUIRED TO GIVE SERVICE IN MORE AREAS THAN JUST WATER, SUCH AS FIRE PROTECTION, POLICE PROTECTION, SEWER, DRAINAGE, ETC. , THAT GOES ALONG WITH THE CITY WHEN WE GO OUT IN THOSE AREAS; AND SO IT IS TACKED ON IN ONE BIG PACKAGE FOR THE CITY, WHEREAS, GREEN VALLEY' S IS PRIMARILY WATER. MAYOR LITTLE ASKED MR. DAVENPORT HOW MANY CUSTOMERS GREEN VALLEY HAD IN THE CITY PROPER. MR. DAVENPORT SAID HE COULD NOT GIVE A FIGURE OFF-HAND. MAYOR LITTLE ASKED HOW MANY BIG SUPPLY LINES WOULD HE SAY GREEN VALLEY HAD IN THE CITY PROPER, DISTRUBUTION LINES OF 10" to 12" . MR. DAVENPORT SAID HE THOUGHT THE ONLY LINE GREEN VALLEY HAS CURRENTLY INSIDE THE CITY LIMITS IS THE ONE COMING UP FM 1103 . MAYOR LITTLE ASKED IF, PRIMARILLY, THE SERVICE TO CUSTOMERS IN THE CITY PAGE 4 MINUTES OF WORK SHOP MARCH 12, 1985 WAS WITH SMALLER TYPE LINES. MR. NIEMIETZ SAID THE ONLY LINES GREEN VALLEY PROBABLY HAS IS THROUGH T. SCHMIDT' S PROPERTY, IF ANY, AND FM 1103 , HACKER- VILLE ROAD AND TIMBER TECH. MAYOR LITTLE ASKED MR. TSCHIRHART WHAT GREEN VALLEY' S ASKING PRICE FOR THE CITY TO BUY THEM OUT FOR WHAT THEY HAD INSIDE THE CITY PROPER, HAD THEY THOUGHT ABOUT THAT. MR. DAVENPORT ASKED IF THE MAYOR WAS TALKING ABOUT DIRECTLY INSIDE THE CITY, AND THE MAYOR SAID "YES" , WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS . MR. DAVENPORT SAID THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT TWO AREAS REALLY, AND HE DIDN' T WANT TO GET CONFUSED. MR. DAVENPORT STATED THAT HE WAS MORE FAMILIAR WITH THE ETJ THAN THE CITY LIMITS . MR. TSCHIRHART SAID THESE QUESTIONS COULD CERTAINLY BE ANSWERED, BUT IT WOULD TAKE A LITTLE TIME. MAYOR LITTLE SAID BECAUSE OF THE APRIL 18TH HEARING BEFORE THE P.U.C. WAS THE REASON HE WAS ASKING THESE QUESTIONS TONIGHT, SINCE TIME WAS OF THE ESSENCE. MR. DAVENPORT ESTIMATED THAT GREEN VALLEY WATER HAD APPROXI- MATELY SIX OR SEVEN LINES WITHIN THE CITY PROPER. THESE LINES WOULD BE LOCATED ALONG GREEN VALLEY ROAD AND EAST OF GREEN VALLEY ROAD MR. BISHOP QUESTIONED THE NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS SERVED FROM THESE LINES COMING INTO THE CITY PROPER. MR. DAVENPORT ESTIMATED THERE WERE ABOUT TWENTY CUSTOMERS INSIDE THE CITY PROPER. HE ALSO SAID THERE WAS A SMALL AMOUNT OF PIPE IN THE CITY PROPER. MAYOR LITTLE POINTED OUT THE CITY' S ETJ ON THE CITY HALL MAP AS BEING ALL THE GREEN BORDERED AREA AND STATED THAT GREEN VALLEY HAD CONSIDERABLE LINES IN THAT AREA. HE ALSO POINTED OUT THE CITY LIMITS AS BEING ALL THAT AREA OUTLINED IN RED, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE AREA WHICH WAS ANNEXED IN OCTOBER, 1984 , FROM FM 3009 BACK TO THE RED LINE AREA; THIS AREA IS NOW IN THE CITY LIMITS . MR. DAVENPORT COMMENTED THAT THE OTHER AREA HE SAW WAS ALONG WIEDERSTEIN ROAD. MAYOR LITTLE POINTED OUT THAT THE MAP LINES DID NOT GO FARTHER ENOUGH SOUTH TOWARD IH-10 TO SHOW THE DIRECTION FOR IH-10, WHICH IS WHERE THE CITY' S ETJ EXTENDS. MR. DAVENPORT STATED THAT IT WAS NOT THE CITY, NOT THE RED LINE, WHICH WAS THE PROBLEM, BUT THE ETJ AREA--WHERE GREEN VALLEY WATER SERVES BETTER THAN TWO HUNDRED CUSTOMERS; BECAUSE THIS WOULD INCLUDE ALL THE PEOPLE ON GREEN VALLEY ROAD, TOLLE ROAD, DEAN ROAD, SASSMANN ROAD, FM 1103, LOWER SEGUIN, HACKERVILLE, THIS TAKES IN A CONSIDERABLE NUMBER OF PEOPLE. MAYOR LITTLE SAID THE PROBLEM WAS TO- COME TO SOME TYPE OF _ AGREEMENT OF WHAT WE ARE WILLING TO DO. GREEN VALLEY WATER HAS INDICATED WHAT THEY WANT; DOES THE COUNCIL HAVE ANYTHING THE SAY TO INDICATE WHAT THEY WANT? MR. HARP STATED THAT HE THOUGHT WHAT WAS REQU-IRED IS MORE STUDY OF THE SITUATION. • MAYOR LITTLE AGREED AND FURTHER STATED THAT THE CITY COULD NOT SAY, WE ARE GOING THIS WAY OR WE ARE GOING THAT WAY, BUT HAD TO ANNEX BY REQUEST OF THE PROPERTY OWNER OR OWNERS. THEREFORE, IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE TO DETERMINE IN WHICH=_DIRECTION THE CITY_ WOULD BE EXPANDING AT ANY GIVEN POINT IN TIME. PAGE 5 MINUTES OF WORK SHOP MARCH 12 , 1985 MR. TSCHIRHART COMMENTED THAT HE HAD'-HEARD_.THAT_THE CITY_COUNCIL HAD APPOINTED==AN:=ANNEXATION_STUDY COMMITTEE AND GREEN VALLEY WATER WOULD APPRECIATE BEING KEPT INFORMED OF ANY ACTION TAKEN. MAYOR LITTLE STATED THE COMMITTEE 'S.--_.DUTIES WERE TO STUDY AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE COUNCIL REGARDING FUTURE ANNEXATION, AND THAT THE PUBLIC WOULD BE INFORMED OF ANY PLANNED ANNEXATION. MR. TSCHIRHART SAID HE FELT AN ANNEXATION PLAN WOULD BE HELPFUL IN LETTING GREEN VALLEY WATER KNOW WHAT THE CITY WOULD LIKE TO DO AND WHAT THE CITY NEEDED TO DO FOR WATER-SERVICE TO THE CITY. HE FURTHER SAID THAT HE COULD NOT HELP WONDERING WHY, AT THIS POINT THE CITY WOULD ASK FOR A PRICE. MAYOR LITTLE REPLIED THAT MR. TSCHIRHART HAD SAID SOMETHING ABOUT BUYING OR SELLING, OR BEING ABSORBED BY AN EXPANDING CITY, AND HE WONDERED IF GREEN VALLEY WATER HAD RESEARCHED THIS POSSIBILITY AND HAD SOME FIGURES ON IT. MR. TSCHIRHART STATED THAT THE CONTRACT WHICH HAD BEEN DEVELOPED SPOKE TO THAT, THE ONE THE COUNCIL DISAPPROVED OF. APPARENTLY, THE STUMBLING BLOCK WAS ADDRESSED BY TOM ANDERLITCH' S QUESTION AS TO WHETHER IT DID NOT FIT THE BOND ORDINANCE. IN THE MEETING WITH HIM, IT WOULD SEEM LIKE .THAT_.:WAS.=THE TIME TO OVERCOME THE PROBLEM OF BOND ORDINANCE; THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE VERY APPROPI- ATE TIME TO SAY LET' S COME UP WITH A PRICE AND BUY OUT THAT AREA AND ELIMINATE THE OVERLAP WITHIN THE CITY. THEN WE COULD HAVE COME UP WITH THAT AGAIN, BUT SOMETHING JUST GOT OUT OF SEQUENCE. DANNIE BISHOP STATED THAT THE NIGHT THE CONTRACT WAS BROUGHT BEFORE THE COUNCIL HE AND OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS RAISED THE QUESTION OF CONTROL; THE ONE PARAGRAPH IN THE CONTRACT THAT BOTHERED' THEM EXTENSIVELY=.WAS_-_THAT CONTROL WOULD BE SHARED WITHIN THE CITY' S BOUNDARIES, IN OTHER WORDS, GIVING ANOTHER ENTITY THE PRIVILEGE OF INSPECTING OUR SYSTEM, OUR PAPERWORK, AND MORE OR LESS BEING ACCOUNTABLE TO THEM. THIS WAS AN AREA THE COUNCIL COULD NOT GO ALONG WITH. MR. TSCHIRHART SAID HE DID REMEMBER COMMENTS ALONG THOSE LINES AT THAT COUNCIL MEETING. MR. DAVENPORT STATED THERE WERE SEVERAL DRAFTS OF THE CONTRACT, THIS VEHICLE WAS DEVELOPED BY BOTH SIDES, WE WERE COMING IN AND SITTING DOWN AND TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER A VEHICLE TO ANSWER THIS PROBLEM. HE SAID HE WOULD LIKE TO SAY AT THE OUTSET THAT WATER SALES WAS.-_NOT A PRIMARY REASON FOR THIS, THAT WHAT BROUGHT GREEN VALLEY WATER HERE TO BEGIN WITH WAS THE FILING_-WITH_-THE_P..U.C._,=--AND SOME HOW IT GOT SHIFTED FROM P.U.C. TO A WATER CONTRACT. ITS IS CONTENGIENT, AS MR. TSCHIHART EXPLAINED EARLIER, THAT IF WE ARE GOING TO SELL OFF OUR CUSTOMERS OUT THERE TO YOU, THAT--WE HAVE FINANCIALLY OTHER THINGS COMING TO US, AND THERE ARE VARIED REASONS FOR THAT. IT WAS CONTENGIENT UPON-WATER SALES FOR US TO SELL OFF PARTS OF THE SYSTEM, BUT THAT IDEA IN CONCEPT, WE WERE NOT COMING HERE TO SELL OFF OUR SYSTEM, WE WERE, AGAIN, TRYING TO GET AT WHAT THE CITY NEEDED AND WE WERE GIVEN, _,IN"_TRYING 'TO- WORK THIS THING THROUGH, SEVERAL THINGS. WHEN YOU SPEAK OF CONTROL, LOOKING INTO THE SYSTEM, IT COMES BACK TO OUR OBLIGATIONS THAT WE HAVE TO MEET REGARDING THE HEALT DEPARTMENT. I__AM SURE THAT WHOEVER IS SELLING YOU WATER NOW HAS A RIGHT TO COME IN AND MAKE SURE THAT THINGS ARE HAPPENING ON THIS SIDE OF THE METER. THAT IS SORT OF THE NORM INSIDE OF THE BUSINESS. MR. BISHOP SAID NO, THEY DID NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT; THE STATE HAS A REQUIREMENT, NATURALLY, TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU INSPECT YOUR WATER FOR APPROVAL FOR PUBLIC USE, BUT THAT IS IT. MAYOR LITTLE STATED THAT THE CITY HAD TO SUBMIT A MONTHLY REPORT PAGE 6 MINUTES OF WORK SHOP MARCH 12, 1985 TO THE STATE, JUST AS GREEN VALLEY WATER DOES. MR. DAVENPORT STATED THAT IF YOU TIE TWO BASIC WATER__SUPPLIES___== TOGETHER, THEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE OF BACK-FLOW. ONE OF THE REASONS OF WHY WE__WERE COMING INTO YOUR SYSTEM IS BECAUSE WE WERE ASKED TO DELIVER TO A TANK, IT WAS A SITUATION. THE CITY OF SCHERTZ HAS PROBABLY BEEN -SEL''LING)T©`Y-,Y --THROUGH\Af-MASTI;R,;.CEIE.CK VALVE AND DID NOT REQUIRE TO GO THAT FAR INTO YOUR SYSTEM; BUT THEY HAD TO GUARANTEE THAT THIS WATER IN CIBOLO DID NOT BACK- FLOW INTO THAT SYSTEM IN SOME MANNER OR FORM. IT IS REQUIRED OF THEM TO MAKE SURE THAT WATER TRANSMITTED PAST THE METER OUT OF THEIR CONTROL DOES NOT COME BACK TO THEM. PART OF THE PARAGRAPH, THE ONE UNDER DISCUSSION, PART OF THAT CONTROL WAS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THE WATER DID NOT BACK-FLOW, AND WAS NOT INTENDED THAT GREEN VALLEY WATER WAS TRYING TO COME IN TO CIBOLO AND' RUN THEIR WATER SYSTEM. MR. BISHOP SAID THAT WAS NOT THE PORTION OF THE PARAGRAPH HE WAS CONCERNED WITH, IT WAS THE PORTION OF THE PARAGRAPH FOR INSPECTION OF LINES, SUBMITTING DOCUMENTATION SUCH AS PLATS AND ALL THESE OTHER THINGS; THIS IS THE PORTION WE OBJECT TO. MR. DAVENPORT: _ "I__THINK WE HAVE PRETTY WELL DECIDED THAT IT'S THE BEST FOR CIBOLO TO BUY WATER FROM SCHERTZ , THAT YOU ALL HAVE LOOKED AT THAT AND DECIDED THAT THAT IS THE BEST THING TO DO. WE ACCEPT THAT AND GO ON. THE POINT WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE IN STA' NG, IN THE WATER CONTRACT IS THAT WE FELT LIKE WE WERE PERSUING IN THE INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION SINCE OCTOBER, AND QUITE FRANKLY WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME. EVIDENTLY, THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION SAW A NEED TO PRESS FORWARD WITH THIS CASE AND SET A HEARING DATE IN TWO DAYS, WHICH HAS BEEN POSTPONED. BUT EITHER WE FIND A SOLUTION BE- TWEEN US, OR WE ARE GOING TO BE SITTING UP IN AUSTIN BEFORE THE EXAMINER HAVING TO EXPLAIN THESE DETAILS TO HIM, AND WE ARE GOING TO BE PAYING OUR LAWYERS TO REPRESENT US . I THINK. WE NEED TO PRESS FORWARD WITH A SOLUTION HERE BEFORE THE 18TH OF NEXT MONTH. IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GO TO AUSTIN, WE SHOULD GO UP THERE HOLDING HANDS, AND SAY, MR. EXAMINER WE HAVE A SOLUTION TO OUR PROBLEMS. OTHER-THAN THAT, THEN THE ONLY OTHER SOLUTION IS FOR THE CITY TO MAKE A MOTION TO DISMISS . " MR. BISHOP: " NOW IF I AM HEARING YOU CORRECTLY, MR. TSCHIRHART, AND MR. DAVENPORT, YOUR PROPOSAL IS WE SERVE THE BLUE AREA, PRESENTLY THAT YOU HAVE MARKED OFF ON THIS MAP, AND THAT YOU BE PRIVILEGED TO SERVE THE REMAINING ETJ OF THE AREA OUTSIDE OF THE BLUE AREA MARKED OFF. IS THAT CORRECT?" MR. DAVENPORT: "YES, SIR. " MR. BISHOP: "FROM NOW UNTIL INFINITY, REGARDLESS OF HOW WE -GO. " MR. TSCHIRHART: "I HAVE TO ASSUME WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME MAP. YOU SEE, ORIGINALLY, THIS WAS THE IDEA, WAS TO GIVE YOU TOTAL CONTROL, WHATEVER TOTAL MEANS, _WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS AND THEN ALLOW YOU TO MOVE INTO THE AREA AND CONTROL THAT TOO, BUT BY A DESIGN FEATURE. AND THE REASON THAT WE COULD DO THAT IS BECAUSE WE WERE MARRIED TO YOU IN A WATER SALES CONTRACT. " MR. BISHOP: "I AM ASKING THIS QUESTION NOW FOR -MY OWN_ BENEFIT. IT IS NOT THE COUNCIL TALKING, I AM JUST LITIGATING. LET' S SAY _ THAT YOU WERE WILLING TO GIVE US A CERTIFICATE FOR THE EXISTING CITY LIMITS TODAY, AND THEN THE ETJ WE WOULD AGREE TO BUY BULK WATER FROM YOU FOR ANY DEVELOPMENT AND AS WE EXPANDED INTO _THE ETJ, BUYING IT FROM YOU. " MR. TSCHIRHART: "IT TURNS OUT THAT THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT FRED, DAVE, BILL AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER DAY WHEN WE MET. TO ME, THAT MAKES SOME SINCE. AGAIN, IT SOLVES THE PROBLEM PAGE 7 MINUTES OF WORK SHOP MARCH 12 , 1985 FOR THE SAME REASON. AS YOU GROW INTO OUR AREA, IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT THAT AND I HOPE YOU DON' T, BECAUSE THAT DOES NOT SOUND GOOD, OUR AREA AND YOUR AREA; AS YOU MOVE INTO THE AREA THAT WE ARE SERVING AND HAVE WATER LINES, WE HAVE TO HAVE AN INCOME ON IT. " MR. BISHOP: "O.K. NOW YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE TOWN CREEK-,SET UP, RIGHT? WHERE WE HAVE THE METER AND WE SERVE THE TOWN CREEK AREA AT OUR EXPENSE AND WE BUY THE WATER FROM YOU THROUGH THE METER, RIGHT?" MR. TSCHIRHART: "YES. " MR. BISHOP: "IS THAT THE TYPE OF SET UP YOU'RE BASING. . . ?" MR. TSCHIRHART: "OR SOMETHING SIMILAR. " MR. BISHOP: "SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT?" MR. TSCHIRHART: "YES., AS LONG AS IT. . .YOU'VE GOT TO PROFIT BY IT, AND WE CAN CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THAT, AND SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE WE HAVE TO PROFIT BY IT. I DARE SAY THE CITY OF SCHERTZ IS MAKING SOME KIND OF MONEY FROM THE SALE OF WATER, AND YOU ARE GETTING IT AT A PRICE THAT YOU FEEL IS RIGHT, SO YOU ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PROFIT BY IT: SO ALL THESE THINGS HAVE TO BE MUTUALLY ADVANTAGEOUS. ._SURE, I DON' T SEE WHY THAT WOULDN' T WORK. OF COURSE, IT' S NOT GOING TO BE AN EASY THING, BECAUSE OF THE PROBLEMS OF TRANSMISSION LINES, EXISTING CUSTOMERS, THERE ARE A LOT OF PROBLEMS THERE, BUT I DON' T THINK THERE ARE ANY THAT CAN'T BE WORKED OUT. THE THEORY TO ME MAKES SENSE, THE THING THAT YOU-ARE SUGGESTING. " MR. BISHOP: "ANOTHER THING THAT CONCERNS ME IS, I 'LL NOT TERM IT AS A "STANDARDIZED RATE" FOR BULK WATER, BUT A RATE WITH WHICH WE CAN LIVE, AND LOWER THAN WHAT THE CUSTOMERS THEMSELVES.-- WOULD HEMSELVES-WOULD RECEIVE, THE INDIVIDUAL CUSTOMERS WOULD RECEIVE, BECAUSE WE ARE BUYING BULK WATER, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LARGE AMOUNTS; WITH SOME, NOT- GUARANTEE, BUT PRETTY MUCH WRITTEN INTO THE CONTRACT, .-WHERE IT WOULD BE NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO COME IN ALL OF A SUDDEN AND SAY WE ARE GOING TO JUMP_=YOU FROM $1 TODAY TO $1.50 TOMORROW. THAT IS THE OTHER POINT WE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE, SOME KIND OF SITUATION WHERE WE COULD PRETTY WELL STAY ON THE- PLANE WHERE THE COMPETITION IS. " MR. TSCHIRHART: "AS LONG AS YOU WANT WATER, AS YOU REFER TO THE TERM "BULK" , AND THIS IS A_FAIRLY NEW WORD BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE HAVE BEEN USING IT SO MUCH BEFORE, AS YOU ARE NOW; BUT IT MAKES SENSE AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. AS LONG AS YOU TAKE THAT WATER AND HAVE NO MORE DEPENDENCE UPON-'_US_FORL ANYTHING-_EXCEPT==THAT WATER, IN OTHER WORDS DEPENDENCE UPON US FOR PRESSURE TO EACH INDIVIDUAL, YOU WILL REPRESSURIZE IT, YOU WILL METER IT, YOU WILL PIPE IT TO THE CUSTOMER; I DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEM WITH THIS. WE LIKE THE IDEA. " MR. BISHOP: "YOU HAVE THIS SITUATION IN TOWN CREEK PRESENTLY. " MR. TSCHIRHART: "SIMILAR.TO THAT, YES. " MR. BISHOP: "SIMILAR TO THIS?" MR. TSCHIRHART: "YES. THE REASON YOU COULD NOT DO THIS BEFORE HAND, WE WERE TOLD, WAS BECAUSE YOU DIDN' T HAVE THE CAPITAL. THAT THOSE THINGS WERE EXPENSIVE AND WE KEPT BEING HIT CON- SISTANTLY BY "WHAT IF" ; WHAT IF THIS DEVELOPMENT COMES OUT HERE, WE DO NOT HAVE THE PIPE LINE, WE DO NOT HAVE THE STORAGE, CAN WE USE AND DEPEND UPON YOUR STORAGE AND YOUR PRESSURE TO SERVE THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO BE INSIDE OF OUR CITY? THIS WAS A TUFFY, WE DIDN'T KNOW-_HOW_TG HANDLE-LIT, WE- TRIED__TO DO IT IN THIS CONTRACT; WE TRIED_TO-.BE -SO--ALL._EXCLUSIVE, THAT WAS A NIGHTMARE. FRANKLY, I''M GLAD IT FAILED. " PAGE 8 MINUTES OF WORK SHOP MARCH 12 , 1985 MR. NIEMIETZ : "IN CASES LIKE THAT, WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT METERS WITH SCHERTZ . SAY WE HAVE ANOTHER SUBDIVISION COME IN, SAY ON YOUR LINE THAT TOWN CREEK IS HOOKED UP ON, DO WE HAVE TO DRAW UP ANOTHER CONTRACT WITH YOU-ON EACH METER?" MR. TSCHIRHART: "IT WOULD BE VERY AWKWARD. IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A CONTRACT THAT ALLOWED YOU SOME ROOM. IT WOULD ALSO-HAVE TO ANSWER TO AN UNKNOWN AREA THAT MAY SPONTANEOUSLY DEVELOP. " MR. BISHOP: "I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION, AND THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL:; LET' S SAY THAT WE EXPANDED OUT TO TOLLE ROAD, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE YOU PRESENTLY HAVE A CONSENTRATED SALES AREA AMONG TRAILER HOUSES, AND COUNTRY LANE, FOR EXAMPLE; WE EXPAND OUT TO THAT POINT, AND WE GET ANOTHER SUBDIVISION OUT THERE IN THE SAME GENERAL;- LOCATION AND WE WANT TO TIE A METER IN TO THAT SUBDIVISION,AND THAN AT THAT TIME WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO BACK OFF FROM THOSE CUSTOMERS, FOR EXAMPLE, AND LET US PUT A.-METER THERE AND SELL US BLUK WATER FOR THOSE CUSTOMERS?" MR. TSCHIRHART: "YOU SEE WHAT' S HAPPENING THERE, THEN WE GET BACK. . . . " MR. BISHOP: "I MEAN WE WOULD STILL BE BUYING WATER FROM YOU, YOU UNDERSTAND, BUT AT A SLIGHTLY REDUCED RATE. " MR. DAVENPORT: "THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT TOWN CREEK THAT HAROLD MISSED WHEN YOU ASKED HIM THE QUESTION; TOWN CREEK IS NOT IN THAT SITUATION THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT, WHERE YOUR PROVIDING THE STORAGE AND YOU ARE PROVIDING THE PRESSURE. " MAYOR LITTLE: "NO, YOU ARE DOING IT ALL. " MR. BISHOP: "NO, NO. - I_=SAID IT WAS OUR LINE WE' RE BUYING THE WATER FROM YOU,_IT;'S--METERED-AT___THE=HEAD_.OF-OUR LINE, IT WORKS AS BULK WATER, THAT IS BASICALLY WHAT I SAID. " MR. TSCHIRHART: "YES, HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE AREA IS WHAT I UNDERSTOOD, NOT THE FACILITIES. " MR. DAVENPORT: "THE QUESTION -ABOUT TOLLE ROAD IS, WHERE IS YOUR STORAGE? YOU WILL BE CALLING UPON US TO DO THAT JOB FOR YOU AND THEN IT DOES NOT MEET THIS BULK RATE CONCEPT. " MR. BISHOP: "NO, NOW I AM SIMPLY ASKING A HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION. I ASKED, WHAT IF WE INCORPORATE TOLLE ROAD WHERE YOU' ARE PRESENTLY SERVING INDIVIDUAL CUSTOMERS, AND AT A CERTAIN POINT,__THE HIGHEST POINT OR WHATEVER BE THE CASE, WE BUILD A STORAGE TANK AND NOW THEN WE WANT TO SERVICE TOLLE ROAD, LET' S JUST SAY FOR EXAMPLE; WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO SUPPLY OUT TANK WITH BULK WATER AND THEN WE WILL TAKE OVER THE SERVICING-OF'._'THOSE-_CUSTOMERS--ALONG-WITH THE NEW ADDITION THAT WE ANNEXED FOR TO START WITH_AT THAT POINT, AND OF COURSE WE WOULD STILL BE BUYING WATER FROM YOU, BUT IT WOULD BE AT A REDUCED RATE COMPARED TO WHAT YOU PRESENTLY WHAT YOU SERVE EACH CUSTOMER. OF COURSE, WE WOULD HAVE TO BUY UP THE EXISTING LINES, I REALIZE THAT. " MR. TSCHIRHART: "ALL OF THESE,.. PRIMARILLY, ARE BUILT UPON TWO CONSIDERATIONS, AND THIS IS REALLY ALL. NUMBER ONE, THAT THE TECHNICALITIES INVOLVED, THE PIPE SIZE, THE STOARAGE, THE PRESSURE, TECHNICALITIES. AND NUMBER TWO, THE ECONOMICS_ OF IT. OTHER THAN THAT, ALL I CAN ANSWER---AT THIS STAGE OF THE GAME FOR THAT TYPE OF HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION IS THAT, YES, WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO COOPERATE. ' MR. BISHOP: "THE REASON I MENTION THIS, I MAY BE WRONG, BUT I DON'T THINK IN SOME AREAS ANYWAY, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE THE PIPE SIZE FOR FIRE PROTECTION, AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PUT IT THERE. THERE IS NOW WAY AROUND IT. " MR. TSCHIRHART: "AND THIS IS PART OF YOUR GROWTH, AND WE RECOGNIZE PAGE 9 MINUTES OF WORK SHOP MARCH 12, 1985 THAT, AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IN OUR WILLINGNESS, OUR ANXIOUSNESS EVEN, TO HELP YOU GROW OUT INTO THOSE AREAS. WE WANT TO HELP YOU DO THOSE THINGS, BUT WITHIN THOSE CONFINES, THE TECHNICAL ASPECT OF IT, AND IF ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE. " MR. BISHOP: "LET ME ASK JUST ONE OTHER THING. IN THE TOWN CREEK AREA, FOR EXAMPLE, IT' S BEEN MY KNOWLEDGE THAT MOST OF THE CONTRACTS HAVE BEEN ON A ONE AND TWO-YEAR BASIS. HOW LONG OUT IN THE FUTURE WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO CONTRACT SUCH A SITUATION?" MR. TSCHIRHART: "LET' S GO BACK TO THE REASON WHY THE CONTRACT IS ONLY ONE OR TWO YEARS. IT' S DIFFICULT FOR US TO DO THIS BECAUSE WE ARE FURNISHING THE STORAGE AND THE PRESSURE; WE ARE FURNISHING EVERYTHING FOR WATER SERVICE. " MR. BISHOP: "I 'M TALKING ABOUT IF WE FURNISH THE STORAGE AND PRESSURE. " MR. TSCHIRHART: "AH! THAT IS A DIFFERENT BALL GAME ENTIRELY, THEN I SEE NO REASON WHY WE CAN' T MAKE A LONG-TERM CONTRACT. BECAUSE HERE ALL YOU WANT IS, IN ESSENCE WHAT YOU ARE GETTING FROM SCHERTZ, BULK WATER. AND AS LONG AS WE HAVE AN INCOME, WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO SERVE YOU WATER; AND THAT' S FAIRLY SIMPLE, ALL WE HAVE TO DO, FOR AS YOU KNOW WE ARE ACQUIRING WATER FROM GUADALUPE-BLANCO RIVER AUTHORITY, IT' S GOING TO GIVE US A VERY COMFORTABLE SOURCE OF WATER, WHICH WE DO NOT HAVE NOW AND WOULD ALSO ALLOW YOU TO AVAIL YOURSELF OF WATER, ALSO; AND WE HAD AN INCOME SO WE CAN MAINTAIN OUR SYSTEM FOR THE MAJORITY OF OUR PEOPLE, WE LIKE IT. " MAYOR LITTLE: "ABOUT THREE OR FOUR MONTHS AGO, YOU STATED OR REQUESTED THAT YOU WERE GOING TO BE LAYING A 12" LINE, I BELIEVE, DOWN TOLLE ROAD, COMING DOWN COUNTRY LANE._.._ OR_ PRINCIPALLY IN THAT DIRECTION. DO YOU KNOW WHEN IT IS GOING TO COME ON DOWN AND SWITCH OVER COUNTRY LANE TO FM 78?" MR. DAVENPORT: "THAT MAIN IS, BASICALLY TO BRING WATER FROM FM 1103 DOWN TO THE 8" ALONG HACKERVILLE. WE' RE TRANSPORTING THIS WATER RIGHT ON THROUGH AND GOING ON ACROSS THERE INTO BEXAR COUNTY WITH IT. " MR. BISHOP: "AS A POINT OF NEGOTIATION, IF WE SAY THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO NEGOTIATE A P.U.C . CERTIFICATE ON THE EXISTING CITY LIMITS, YOU SERVICE THE ETJ UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE CITY IS IN A POSITION TO SERVICE THE AREA BY PROVIDING STORAGE TANKS, PRESSURE AND EVERYTHING, AND AT THAT POINT YOU WILL BECOME OUR BULK PURVEYOR, AND WE WOULD NEED TO BUY THE EXISTING LINES IF THAT WOULD BE THE CASE, AND THEN WE WOULD TAKE OVER THE CUSTOMERS AT THAT POINT, AND WE WOULD BE BUYING BULK WATER FOR OUR STORAGE TANK. " MR. TSCHIRHART: "IT WOULD BE REAL SIMPLE, AND I SEE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. " MR. BISHOP: "NOW WOULD YOU ALSO BE WILLING, AS IN. THE_-CASE WITH SCHERTZ_, THAT WHEN THEY FURNISH THE WATER TO US AT THE METERING POINT, THEIR CONTROL AT THAT POINT IS DEAD; WE TAKE OVER FROM THERE AS FAR AS CONTROLLING OUR WATERM, MAINTENANCE, SUPERVISION AND WHATEVER BE THE CASE, WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FROM THAT POINT ON. " MR. TSCHIRHART: "WE HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT AT ALL. " MAYOR LITTLE: "I HAVE A QUESTION TO ASK YOU, HAROLD. THE RATE YOU WERE QUOTING US ON THE OLD CONTRACT, WHICH IS NOW GONE, THAT WAS FIGURING A LOT OF AREAS WHERE YOU WOULD BE PUMPING AND SUPPLYIN, THE WATER STORAGE?" MR. TSCHIRHART: "YES, IT WAS. " PAGE 10 MINUTES OF WORK SHOP MARCH 12 , 1985 MAYOR LITTLE: "WOULD THE RATES BE ADJUSTED, IF WE WENT TO A BULK WATER PURCHASE WHERE WE SUPPLY PRESSURE?" MR. TSCHIRHART: "YES. WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT RATES, AND ESPECIALLY AS COMPLEX AS THAT WAS, BASED UPON YOUR RATHER COMPLICATED STRUCTURE, BECAUSE YOU HAVE VERY LIMITED RESOURCES RIGHT NOW IN THIS GROWTH ERA, SO YOU ARE DEPENDING AN AWFULL LOT UPON THEM. BUT YOU ARE CERTAINLY VERY AMBITIOUS IN YOUR PLANS. SO WHAT WE TRIED TO DO WAS BUILD IN A SITUATION THAT YOU COULD LIVE WITH SHORT TERM, AND STILL ALLOW YOU TO CONTINUE ON WITH YOUR PLANS; BUT WE BUILT IN SOME SAFEGUARDS IN THERE THAT IF YOUR PLANS DIDN' T MATERIALIZE, YOU WOULD NOT BE STUCK WITH THEM. AND AS WE SAW IT. IF WE WERE SELFISH WITH THIS IT CERTAINLY WAS NOT OUR INTENTION. BUT WE FELT THAT WE WERE THE ONES WHO COULD GET HURT, WE HAD IT ALL TO LOSE--.. . I HOPE YOU KNOW WE ARE NON-PROFIT, WE WILL NEVER GO IN THERE AND SAY WE THINK WE CAN MAKE SOME MONEY ON THIS. MAYOR LITTLE: "THE CITY IS THE SAME WAY, WE ARE NON-PROFIT. EVERYTING GAINED GOES BACK INTO THE CITY. MR. DAVENPORT: "ONE THING I WANT TO POINT OUT, IS THAT PART OF THIS EXCHANGE IS IF WE ARE GOING TO AGREE TO LET THE CITY BE CERTIFIED INSIDE THE CITY LIMITS, IS THAT WE BE TAKEN AWAY FROM THAT OBLIGATION. " MR. BISHOP: "OUR INTENT WOULD BE TO SERVICE THE ENTIRE CITY LIMITS AREA. IT TAKES TIME TO GET THINGS IN PLACE, AND WE COULD POSSIBLY ARRANGE THINGS LIKE TOWN CREEK ON A TEMPORARY BASIS. " ' MR. TSHIRHART: "I MENTIONED THIS THING THE OTHER DAY, AND THE MORE I_.THINK ABOUT IT THE MORE I LIKE THE IDEA. WE NEED AN ARBITRATION COMMITTEE, BECAUSE TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE. WHAT WE WANT NOW IS THAT YOU WOULD CHOOSE ANYBODY THAT YOU WANT, SOMEBODY THAT IS WELL QUALIFIED FROM A TECHNICAL AND ECONOMICAL STAND POINT, AND THAT WE WOULD CHOOSE SOMEBODY WE FEEL WOULD BE QUALIFIED, AND THEN THESE TWO WOULD CHOOSE A THIRD PERSON, SOME- ONE WHO WAS A TOTALLY DISINTEREST PERSON, THIS THIS THREE-MAN COMMITTEE COULD MEET RIGHT HERE IN THIS ROOM. HOWEVER, WE WOULD HAVE TO AGREE TO ABIDE BY THEIR DECISION. " MAYOR LITTLE: "I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY THAT THE DISCUSSION REGARDING THE HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION POSED BY MR. BISHOP IS HIS OWN VIEW POINT, AND NOT THOSE OF THE COUNCIL. " MAYOR LITTLE STATED THAT AT THIS TIME, WITH THE COUNCIL'S PERMISSION, HE WOULD LIKE TO APPOINT MR. HARP TO WORK WITH MR. TSCHIRHART, .AND ALSO MR. DANNIE BISHOP AND MR. BILL WIEDERSTEIN; TO TRY TO WORK OUT SOMETHING ACCEPTABLE FOR BOTH PARTIES, AND MAKE THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE COUNCIL FOR FURTHER ACTION. MR. TSCHIRHART SAID THEY WOULD TAKE THE POSITION THAT THEY ARE RECEPTIVE TO LOOK -AT ANYTHING THAT THE COUNCIL WOULD PRESENT TO THEM, BUT AT THIS STAGE OF THE GAME, GREEN VALLEY WATER WAS NOT IN A POSITION TO PRESENT ANYTHING TO THE COUNCIL. MAYOR LITTLE THANK THE MEMBERS OF GREEN VALLEY WATER FOR MEETING WITH THE COUNCIL AND INVITED THEM TO COME BACK AS OFTEN AS THEY COULD. MR. TSCHIRHART THANKED THE COUNCIL AND INVITED THEM TO VISIT ® AT GREEN VALLEY WATER. 5 . ADJOURNMENT. 8 :40 P.M. - MIKE ABSHER ( JO NIRIDER) MOVED TO ADJOURN. ALL APPROVED. MOTION CARRIED. PAGE 11 MINUTES OF WORK SHOP MARCH 12 , 1985 4 BILL LITTLE, MAYOR ATTEST: -f-)1;01-� C TY SECRETARY •