Min CC 10/25/1996 r.
MINUTES OF CITY COUNCIL MEETING
THE CITY COUNCIL OF CIBOLO CONDUCTED AN EMERGENCY MEETING ON FRIDAY,
OCTOBER 25,1996 AT 8:00 A.M.AT THE CORNER OF MAIN STREET AND SCHLATHER
STREET,CIBOLO,TEXAS. THIS EMERGENCY MEETING WAS CALLED BECAUSE AN
URGENT PUBLIC NECESSITY EXISTED DUE TO A REASONABLY UNFORESEEABLE
SITUATION IN THAT CONTINUED CONSTRUCTION COULD CREATE AN IMMINENT
THREAT OR HAZARD TO PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY. THE FOLLOWING WAS THE
ORDER OF BUSINESS:
I. CALL TO ORDER.
Mayor Sam Bauder called the meeting to order at 8:05 a.m.
II. ROLL CALL.
Present were Mayor Bauder,Councilmen Jeff Miller,Bob Glisar,Mark Buell,Chuck Ridge and
Councilwoman Gail Douglas.
Staff was represented by,Public Works Director Keith Gilbreath,Lead Maintenance Person Robert
Arenas and City Administrator Rudy Farias.
III. DISCUSSION/ACTION ON THE SIZE AND PLACEMENT OF BOX CULVERTS
LOCATED AT THE MAIN STREET DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENT PROJECT SITE
AT SCHLATHER STREET
City Engineer Ed Ford made a presentation to City Council showing the grades of the approaches onto the
drainage culverts before construction and after construction. He explained existing asphalt would be torn
out and replaced. Ed said the grades with the boxes as designed,with the elevation,will give you a 4.7
grade from the street coming to the box and then leaving the box with a six percent grade which is very
normal. One other thing that we picked up was from flow line to the top of the box is 33.5 inches and this
structure here(drawing)should have been 31 inches. The structure down here(actual)is suppose to be 32
inches. Its has an eight inch cap,this is a seven inch cap(drawing). The eight inch cap on kicked it up
one more inch but that is not enough to really make a difference. But with the transition across here,it's a
smooth enough transition that nothing is going to hang up on it. It's what you would normally see with a
normal driveway coming in.
Mayor Bauder asked what was going to be done with the sidewalk?
Ed Ford answered we would probably need to take out two joints and then flush it with the drive and then
have a nominal rise. Ed Ford said one of the things Keith pointed out was that there is nominal drainage
in the alley. This alley is very flat and it does not really drain other than at its drops of and it comes back
throw the side. It would be good to go ahead and place a twelve inch pipe under the walkway.
Mayor Bauder replied,well actually there would be no sidewalk through here(discussing the alley
approach to Main Street)people would be walking on a sloped surface.
Ed Ford said well its pretty much what they're walking on now. The sidewalk stops at the asphalt.
Bill Hunter with Pesado Construction said it(sidewalk)will be elevated a little bit.
Ed Ford continuedpresenting the project using his drawing and discussed the Bramblewood drainage
culverts. He said the second structure when he came out to look at it(the red line here shows where the
existing pavement was and the slopes coming off the back side and looking at it)it was higher than what
we would want. Ed Ford said we would want it right at 6%and so Ed Ford went ahead and dropped and
lowered it. (The section at the top shows that when its lowered the red line still represents what the
existing pavement was and the bottom black line your grading space going in and the top black line going
across matches up almost exactly.)
Mayor Bauder said well if that was dropped to match up why wasn't this one dropped to match up.
Ed Ford said you've got a gas line that is coming right under the boxes.
Mayor Bauder asked didn't we know that the service line was here when we did this job;when we drew it
up?
Ed Ford said we new the main was there but we did not have any information on the service line.
Bill Hunter said the service is located over here pointing to a yellow dot on main street just right of the
drainage culverts.
Gail Douglas asked if the reason why the drainage culverts are two inches higher are because of the gas
line?
Ed Ford said no.
Gail Douglas asked why is it two inches higher?
Ed Ford replied because of the box.
Gail Douglas then asked what was not right?
Ed Ford said actually what you got is what was drawn within two inches.
Gail Douglas asked what did we say we wanted?
Ed Ford answered seven inches.
Gail Douglas asked why is this eight inches if we said seven?
Ed Ford replied it was because of the manufacturer.
Bill Hunter said the reason is because this is TxDOT specifications.
Ed Ford replied this is very trivial compared to what we are talking about. If you are looking at what is
going on here,it is exactly how its was drawn to plan. Once they finish with every thing it will look nice.
Mayor Bauder said I think it is going to look terrible.
Mark Buell said the people will complain and we will here about it from all the people that live in the
houses right here. They(Schlather Street residents)all park in these carports,they are in and out of here
all day several times;and this is not what we bid on,this is not what we paid for. We paid for two inches
lower and that's what I think we should do.
Ed Ford said what we have will work,and lowering it,you are going to be looking at additional cost.
s '
Sate Bauder said no we will negotiate any additional cost. We are not approving any additional cost at
this time. We want what we bid for;we want it lowered the way it is suppose to be;if you guys can lower
it two inches do it because we are not going to accept it;at least I'm not. It is up to the council to vote on
it this morning. That is the way I feel about it.
Mayor Bauder then asked if this one is not messed up(alley)why did they automatically lower the second
one(Bramblewood).
Ed Ford said I lowered Bramblewood. This is what we came out here on(alley)but we were looking at
that also(Bramblewood)and when I went through the design notes. . .
Mayor Bauder then said when you went back to the design you lowered that one(Bramblewood)to make
it straight because you all realized this here did not look right.
Bill Hunter said he brought up the fact that when he started the project he brought up the elevation with
Keith and stated that the box is going to sit up high and Keith said he understood that and so Pesado
Construction went ahead and proceeded with it. Bill Winters continued and said it is not like this is
something that just popped out of the blue and when you are talking about two inches,two inches on
something like this that weighs 20,000 pounds each is pretty insignificant and if you are going to lower it,
lower it a foot but then you get into a problem of the flow through here. If you lower it a foot then you've
got an eight inch by six foot wide box to carry your flow. You'11 get three inches of silt and that leaves you
with five inches.
Mark Buell said if we would have known that in advance,we probably would not have gone ahead with
the project.
Ed Ford said if it is lowered the most it can be lowered is 6 inches.
Mark Buell said what we have to get done is lift it back up,have ENTEX come in and lower their line and
then drop it back down and put concrete in the bottom.
Ed Ford said what you have here is what the drawing shows.
Mark Buell asked is this elevation what the drawing shows?
Ed said it is about two inches higher because of the thickness. If you are going to lower it,you need to go
ahead and lower it six inches and still keep your grade here.
Bob Glisar said if we went to the original specifications and we dropped it two inches bringing it to our
original specifications,the visual aspects aren't going to change but six inches would.
Jeff Miller asked if we drop six inches who is going to pay for the gas line.
Keith Gilbreath said generally ENTEX pays for it themselves.
Gail Douglas asked how much money are we talking to lower the culverts?
Bill Winters said he would probably charge$6,000.
Gail Douglas asked two inches is all you are really liable for but if we want to go out six inches then we
are going to be liable for some of it.
Ed Ford said the fabrication of the box is what determines what is put in and we don't have control over
that. We set out the guidelines for what it should be and they have a tolerance. This is what they were
a
manufacturing at the time and it's something a contractor doesn't have control of only the manufacturing
group.
Gail Douglas said so what we are saying here is this is nobody's fault,nobody is taking responsibility for
this.
Ed Ford said no what I'm saying is that we have a structure here;we were not aware that there was that
significant of difference when this was purchased to put in. It hasn't been until this was brought up and
we started actually measuring everything. The manufacturer orders;they are given the type of structure;
and they shipped it out. We got we assume that it is within the standards.
Gail Douglas asked is that within the standards?
Ed Ford said yes they've got a plus or minus with it.
Mayor Bauder said it is not plus or minus two inches,there is not that much tolerance. There may be a
half-inch or something like that,but there isn't that much tolerance. The Mayor said he thinks it is going
to be more of an eye sore when traveling down Main Street.
Chuck Ridge said he is not sure two inches is going to change the view. It looks bad;I don't like the looks
of it;but I don't think two inches is going to change it.
Mark Buell said obviously we have a problem,now we need a solution,our cost is$6,000 to lower it. I
guess it doesn't matter if we go two inches or six inches.
Gail Douglas said I don't care whose fault it is. At this point if we need to drop it six inches we need to
drop it six inches. How many party's have we got involved here. We've got the city,we've got Ed Ford
and we've got Pesado,right. So we each pay$2,000.
Ed Ford said I think what we need to do is have the contractor go back and find out exactly what it is
going to cost.
Discussion continued about lowering it six inches and also water flow.
Mayor Bauder said we might be willing to pay our third of it and how the rest of it is split up I don't know.
Bill Hunter said my only problem is I haven't done anything wrong,so why am I being penalized.
Mayor Bauder said I didn't say who,I said I don't care how it is split up. This is not what we approved
and this is not what we bought.
Bill Hunter said well I'm in a tough position. I have got to go,and I've got to move with it. If that's the
case,I'll yank it up,but I don't think it's right. I'll go ahead and do it,and I'll yank it out,and I'll put them
back lower next week.
Mayor Bauder said I don't think its fare for the contractor.
Gail Douglas agreed.
Mark Buell said now we are asking him(Pesado)to do something that wasn't in the specifications so he
should get paid for it;but I think it is between us and our engineer to decide what we are going to do and
maybe we can negotiate on the$6,000;but Pesado will still get paid.
Jeff Miller said lets get this show on the road,we're not doing anything but standing around and talking.
We know what needs to be done;we'll get the financial details later;but lets let him(Pesado)get going,
lets get ENTEX out here.
Mark Buell motioned to drop the drainage culverts six plus inches,place the water grade where it needs to
be,and have Rudy Farias negotiate the financial end of it. Seconded ny Jeff Miller. Approved.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
Jeff Miller motioned to adjourn at 8:40 a.m. n _
APPROVED AND ADOPTED ON THE 12- DAY OF OOV f m\Q e-( 11996.
HONORABLE SAM BAUDER,MAYOR
ATTEST:
RUDY NE FARIAS,CITY ECRETARY